Hi friends,
I just want to mention something here, we have great community here, active, friendly, knowledgeable, real photographers... but why we are here? aren't we here just to improve our photographing skill? then why we just say "nice set" "great shot" and so on, why we don't criticize our photos? I don't mean to ruin photos but why don't we mention things we see in photos and we know some how there is something wrong, I don't know about focus, brightness, exposure...?
I don't say I'm a professional I don't even call myself a photographer yet, I'm photography lover for now there is many things to learn for me, but here in Iran we have a proverb it says "everyone knows everything". if I don't know my weakness I can't try to solve it and I can't improve in it, I just say " I " cause I don't want to talk in anyone's place, I prefer having 5 comment on my posts that has some critics on them.

Because this community has another self understanding, well, at least the majority I guess. This is one of the very few , if not the only fotocommunity where the whole range of photographers live more the less peacefully together. People like you, me and many others have the critique forum to work on our abilities.
And to be honest I am working between 10 and 12 hours a day whom of my friends shall I entertain with a critique like
"This is a wonderful photo with a perfect implementation of the rule of third. Foreground, motif and background fitting together to a real great result. I really like how you catch the very special light situation but the details in the right below corner are a bit sunk in black."
For that I would need a 48 hours day, only 10 friends instead of 100 and somebody I can send to do my photos.

Thanks, Amir, for the interesting thread. A while ago, I grew increasingly bored with the well-meant but ultimately tiresome "awesome set/post" comments here. After a lot of chatter, which is all part of the PB experience, the administrators were kind enough to give us a "critique" section in the forum where you can specifically ask for input about an image or set.

Not many people use it. When they do, it's usually mistaken for the "introductions" section, but it is there.

You might want to add "constructive criticism welcomed" on your posts or actively encourage people to "improve your photography".

I think Gerd's remark is spot on. In my opinion, this is a community with a photography interest, not a photography network. There are other sites where the technical level of photography is generally of a much higher order, but they don't have the community spirit that makes this place special.

To add to Gerd's comment, the web isn't a very good place for critiquing. Images have to be scaled small to fit on pages designed for old laptops, so forget panoramas and the colour space has to be sRGB, which consists of 216 colours. Even so, here's my list: apart from the ubiquitous flickr, the drpreview.com forums, galleries and challenges are a good place, but can get very dry and/or vicious. RedBubble.com and its 'groups' are also very good. Try the "Ace submissions" and "constructive criticism" groups. They're harsh but fair and the moderators prevent things getting out of hand.

I can understand what you mean, but I will speak for me: I am here because I want to have a PHOTOBLOG A place where I can express myself, learn to know new people, learn about the world...sure, photography is an important part of all of this, and I would love to take better photos and improve myself (and I am grateful for every advice and critique!). But the most important thing here for me is the sharing...I am curious what other blogers shoot, I love to learn about their lifes in pictures....for me even a " great set" comment is valuable, it is like saying Hello to a neigbour
There are great photographers here, I love to visit their blogs and I know I will never be as good as them, but that is not the point for me because I am definitely here not only for improving my skills...

"the colour space has to be sRGB, which consists of 216 colours"

Umm, what?

@ Rokas, I think it was you who put me on to this article.

Be that as it may, when I upload a ProPhoto or Adobe 98 RGB colour space to the web, I get dull, nasty colours. I use sRGB because there aren't any better options for now.

@ Stéfan:

No, it wasn't me - I'm not a huge fan of Chuck Norris )

Anyway, 216 colours are so called "Web safe colours" and really don't have anything to do with sRGB. Regarding the Ken's article - I have a suspicion that he rather misses the point. If you're operating with 8bit colour depth only, you effectively have to choose between clipping (sRGB) and banding (aRGB), so yes, sRGB will look more saturated than aRGB. And it's true in Ken's case as well, him being a dedicated JPG man
However if you go to 12bit or 14bit depth (RAW), it's not so "black and white" anymore - banding of aRGB is virtually eliminated, while sRGB clipping becomes more apparent, so it's a matter of personal preferences I'd say.

Thanks, Rokas (and even a little to "Chuck), but to return to the original theme of this thread, I think Marie's comment probably encapsulates what makes PB a special place. Photography is what brings us together, but not what keeps us together, in my opinion.

Many thanks to all of you which put you time read my thread and left comment,
@GKorts:
Thank you and you are right everyone here is so friendly and infact because of that I asked them for help but you know I think it is not the way to put every single post in critique section if we like comments and critique for them to improve

@Stéfan:
yes again I have to mention cause here have really great community sprite as you said I would like to put all of my photos here not in any other sites no matter Iranian or other English sites cause here everyone is friendly and so warm and kind to each other. and you are right maybe web is not good place for critique for colors, but you can see poor focus on my photo right? or extra space above the head of a Portrait, or over exposure on it and these can help me a lot in improving my skill.
but your recommends are also good I mean you said write "constructive criticism welcomed" on my posts thank you so much

@Eiram:
Thank you so much, and you are right we are here to share our photos with other people anyone has his/her own opinion of being here, and your opinion is also great one you wanna get closer to world and know about the cultures in different place and know them through images this is of course great, and as Stephen said "Photography is what brings us together, but not what keeps us together" I want it too I visit their blogs as much as I can but I have another goal of being here learn something from those who are far better than me and can see my weakness and my mistakes.

If all I have to say about a photo is 'nice one' I prefer to shut up. I don't like to criticize photos, either, I'd do it only with people I know would understand my intent to share opinions, but generally again I prefer to shut up. My comments are always, always about the feelings or thoughts a photo provokes in me. And they're also the kind of comments I appreciate the most when given to me.

@meppol:
Thank you for sharing with me you opinion, and I would tell you I would appreciate if you ever see anything in my photos please, I won't get annoyed or bothered Promise

you are right and I'm trying to do the same here I mean get someone for helping me out in this,
May I ask you to give me your advise about my photo as well? please when you have chance to see my photos on PB give your adviceto me to make them better
Thank you in advance

I agree with you Amir, I'd like to get some proper critiques rather than just praise. I've had a message on my profile for ages saying such, but very rarely get any criticism. I think because it is so against the grain to what usually happens on photoblog.

I have had an idea to try and promote the idea that giving criticism and ideas for improvements is a positive thing and to encourage people to do so. If you look at my avatar you will see a little red dot in the corner. I'm using this symbol as an invitation to critique my shots. If anyone wants to join me in this, just place a red dot on your avatar. It would only take a handful of us to make a start.

Red Dots For Real Feedback!

To answer the topic question, "What a nice set" does it help?.

Yes, it does help a lot in so many ways. Though it does not directly help people to improve that particular set, in some cases, it helps encouging people to keep trying and shooting and posting. And with that continuously practice, it does help improvement the skill and knowledge also.

In my case, I always regards the short notes from friends as a way of saying "Hi" to me. And I do really understand that they might not have much time to write long sentences, but they still spare their time to visit me. What precious gifts from friends!!!

I can't help but go back to Gerd's remark about the motive and the opportunity to critique. Some of us check PB on smartphones or tablets - hardly the best platform for a serious consideration of people's work. Others simply can't keep up with all the comments, threads, conversations, etc., as it is. I really think the critique section is the best place to ask for sincere, constructive advice on a single image. It is safe to assume that a post in the critique section is there for that purpose, which is not the case with many people's posts. I have inadvertently annoyed people by critiquing work on their posts in between all the nice, warm and fuzzy comments.

To that end, I'll repeat what I have found to be the best method of using the critique section in the forums:
1. Right-click on an image (if you have a pro account, right-click on an enlarged image)
2. Copy the URL *for the image* (not an element in the page)
3. Click on "New topic" in the critique section
4. Type your request
5. Click on the image button to the right of the text zone
6. Replace the text between [img] with the pasted URL you copied in step 2 and post your request.

I believe the critique section could be used to greater effect if people did not:
1. Mistake it for the introductions section, e.g., "Hi, just arrived, would really appreciate criticism of my work" - which one?
2. Just add a link to their posts.

Sorry if I sound grumpy, but getting the critique section going in the first place wasn't easy and it doesn't appear to be used much anyway.

@Jarvo:
Thanks it is a good idea but if you read what Stephen said in previous posts it is better I think just to mention it at the end of posts.

@Huiching:
Thank you for sharing your thought with me, but I don't mean a particular set, I mean whol thing not just this photo or just this type of takinf photos. yes it could encourage you for taking more and more photos but does it help when you don't know your weakness and your mistakes in taking photo? practice gets it's meaning when you know your mistake and your weakness and you try to improve it by practice, if I don't know for example in a rainy day I can get best result by 1/60 shuter speed or if I don't know how to frame a photo in best way, I may take thousands of photos but I will get no improvment cause most of them are poor and with mistakes and first of all there is no one to tell me that I can get much better result by doing some simple technicks and second of all I keep taking wrong photo. and it doesn't help me.

@Stephen:
Dear Stephen you are right again, but I mean whole procces of photos not just some special set, now you say put them in critique section, now suppose I start 365 Day project, how it be if I put every day a post on critique section, of course people here will be bored and get annoyed by seeing a post from me here every day right?

@phill:
Yes bro, of course I want you to say what is good or what is bad you know I like your style in photography and I will be so happy if you tell me the weaknesses you see in my photos, and I will do the same for you if you want to ;)
I appreciate any kind of comment too of course all of them are precious for us cause as you said it is marvelous that some one took his/her time and saw your photos and left comment on it but again as you said I want to improve in photography and really learn it not just like it and do it, I really want to be a photographer one day and I want to learn from anyone here in this friendly and nice community and try to fix my mistakes

I totally agree with HuiChing, a simple comment in my opinion helps.
It helps encouraging people to keep shooting and posting.
Every comment is WELCOME, it could be a simple "nice picture" or a technical critique. It depends on how much time has the person who is commenting, or it depends on the relationship between the 2 photobloggers ...
This is only my opinion!
Sorry for my bad english.
Ciao ciao!!

Regarding this subject, I have to make a shameless plug for one of my old posts all about criticism. Click here.

I think criticism is always welcome on everybody's blog, as long as it is constructive. Tell what's wrong (In your opinion
) with a picture but not without saying how it can be fix or correct. A photo criticize should not mean to offend or discourage anyone, on the contrary.

Thank you Sandra,
it is just i need, criticize with a way of fixing it

I see PB as shared exhibition space
Photographers are visual artists, people who capture a vision because, however fleetingly, it says something.
It's obvious from the range of photographs that every level of skill and expertise and novice is represented in PB but all the images exist for a reason.
And so a conversation, a communication is taking place; it's nice to know that, occasionally it's not just a shout in the wilderness but that someone has received the message and signalled back.
So any comment is OK; when people visit exhibitions they usually just leave a date and signature and "nice!", not a major critique even if they are professors of art - the place for intensive discussion is in the dedicated seminar (and lots of people have made suggestions about photography skill forums - I'm also certain that most photographers seeking technical critical judgement can find something locally ).
How brilliant that people from anywhere on the planet can share their vision and we can see their world!
If people want a specific critique they can use this forum or add a comment to their own post.

"What a nice set" does it help? yeap. it helps you to reply, thank, and comment his/her post sometimes is better say that just to X know you've seen his/her work.

I like to see "what a nice set" because then I know that someone spent time at my blog, at least on that set. Maybe on other sets that are important to me....the comment also makes me remember to say Thank You for your visit....

I agree. It is nice to know that someone took the time to look at your photos. I think one of the things that makes Photoblog so great is that it seems to be filled with people who always try to find the good in things. I know I do. And there is always something good in every post.

There are many reasons folks post on Photoblog. Some post because they want to become better photographers; some because they want to show off their garden. Others because they want to keep in touch with family and friends who do so, and even others for the social network and yes, even for the positive comments. You can't assume that if one doesn't ask for critiques or write the proper comment your not a professional or not serious about photography.

@lachritz
Dear Leo )
Who is really ready for something when to could be? This is a delay you will be continuous as for me.
it (hard comments) ialways wanted, most people fine-minded & good-hearted.
ican act ruthlessly, If you want to )

It is hard to critique an image that can't exceed 800 pixels, uses a "web-safe" colour space of 216 tones and is backlit by the computer monitor. It is unlikely that after looking at dozens of images, PB members will want to spend minutes (forget hours) deconstructing a work. Google analytics tell me that the average time spent on a PB page is under thirty seconds, which is why I rarely bother writing anything or putting more than one or two images in a post. People really don't take the time, as a general rule.

(Opt-out clause: I know some people do indeed pay the poster the supreme compliment of carefully reading and appreciating what is posted, but they are really the exception to the rule.)

Over two years ago, I and others 'lobbied' the administrators for a 'show-and-tell' section in the forums, which became the critique section. It's now used as another introductions section (see my grouse about it further up this thread).

If you really want other PB members to critique one specific image, write a new topic in the critique section, copy the URL of the image from your post, use the image icon to the right of text zone (paste the image URL between the [img] tags).

Things to avoid:

1) Using the critique section to say "hi, my name's blahblahblah. Please tell me what you think of my work"
2) Just putting a link to your post (which work?)
3) Criticizing the member, not his or her work.

An example with clear instructions can be accessed here.

I'm one of those people who dislike "awesome post/set comments", no matter how well intended. Sometimes, when a friend I really like here posts something which prompts absolutely nothing constructive from me, I say nothing. This is a personal choice, not an attempt at persuading others to do the same.

I don't see a photograph here right now for Critique! All I see is more of the same "Photoblogger Bashing" about comments.........geeeeeeesh

Does anyone get what this site is about? "LIFE IN PICTURES"

exactly- there are many great sites that have sections for critiquing, or are for that purpose alone.

It isn't bashing PB members to state a preference. I prefer not receiving "awesome post" comments and want my photography to improve by sharing it with other interested people whose opinions I respect. I am not alone. This is why an option exists in PB to submit work for critique. You don't have to do it; it's a conscious choice. Don't mistake the specific for the general.

"Life in pictures"? Fine. To paraphrase Hobbes, the [unimproved] "life of man [is] solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short". Whether or not you agree is, again, a conscious decision.

PB should be broad and open-minded enough to allow everyone to find what they want. If it becomes just a community of yes-men, it dies - and deservedly. I hope this isn't the case and I am happy the critique option exists. I wish more people would use it.

Just a quick question about the history of pb.

were the comments in the early part of pb different than they are now? for example in the past did they provide more constructive comments

I still don't see a photograph here for critique!

No,definitely not, u make a very valid point, infact i have the same question in my mind for a while now, and i dont see these kind of coments imporoving mine or anyone elses photography. It would be a lot more useful to have ppl pointing out the mistakes, suggestions for improving the photo making techniques and even retouching, but i dont see anyone caring for that, most of the ppl are just happy to read the kind frndly sweet comments and then reciprocate ,its like u r distributing jelly beans and get the same in return, lol cool etiquettes, lol, but frankly i havnt learnt much here in terms of photography, though i enjoy watching some of the master photos that comeup, it gives me some sort of idea to try, but its only hit and trial when i attempt them, no education here ;), and its not a social networking site to share frndly msges, if i would like to stay in touch with someone, i will use something like facebook, not photoblog ) So this is what making me gradually lose interest in this site, hope we have some critics and suggestions floating around soon )

@NITTINPLP Well, there´s no website which will improve your photography skills. Improving your skills functions by doing 20000 photos, studying photography at a nice university or working hard in a studio if somebody gives you a chance. If you want critique ok......have you ever asked someone for and ....are you ready to face it
Sorry if I am a bit harsh but these kind of comments are really wrong here, have you ever read what this blog is about?...... No, are you surprised if you have ordered a book online and get a washing machine..... you are ..... perhaps next time you should read the small text as well

I agree with Gerd, no website will improve your photography skills, only you can do that, with study, practice and hard work. I have not ever submitted a photo for critique, because quite frankly I don't think any of mine are up to that level. The value of the 'jelly beans', as NITTINPLP calls the kind comments, is in their ability to provide support and motivation. Perhaps another way of getting the criticism you are looking for is by asking those on your friends list whose work you admire the most for help on specific pieces? This takes the sting out of getting critiqued in public, and may off the more direct help you are looking for.

I agree as well that the only one who can increase your ability in your photography is yourself and the work that you as an individual put into it. A concert pianist does not learn to play by others telling them what they are doing wrong, they practice.
TO ALL MY FRIENDS AND VISITORS: I appreciate any comment, critique, or inspiration that I receive from you. Some I have taken into consideration, some I have not. Some I thought were great, some stung a little, some made me wonder why I take photographs. But, I know that if I want to improve my skills I have to get out of my chair, pick up my camera and walk out that door looking for something to photograph. Post it and accept the comments that I receive in the spirit they are delivered; good or bad.
To those who are seeking instruction, maybe look for a sight that has instruction as their main focus, take a local class on photography, enter contests and see what they say.
We must all remember that we are our own worse critics and what we think is not so good may be great in the eyes of another.
Ask yourself why you are posting and go from there.
I wish you luck.
Thank You for reading my opinion.

Hahahaha good point. I think not !!!
Photos of course, are about how YOU view your environment and therefore have nothing to do with anyone else at all : )

This is an old issue, one which this site has exhausted as far as its abilities allow. There is, however, an aspect many people in the "look at what I do!" Internet show-and-tell dynamic forget: there are three people involved in a portrait (for example), the subject, the photographer and the viewer. The viewer always has the final say. The photographer's aim is to ensure that his or her view is sufficiently clear for the viewer to share it.

Go

I'm just glad people look at my blog. I also like the fact that the ones who know me well can tell something is up with me when I don't post for a period of time. I'm bipolar and there are times I get lost in my unusual little world. Be it a comment or message it is nice to know people are genuinely concerned. I'm a person, not a diagnosis and that's how they make me feel.

Like I said I'm just glad they looked at my blog.

I`m sure like me you know which friend bloggers one can add a positive critcism to and which you cannot, this is all part of the global family atmosphere this space generates. Also we have a huge variety of people from all different background and skill levels. I personally often do not feel confident enough to criticise someone well, regularly using words which are perhaps not the right ones `in the field of photography` as it were. If I visit like most people, I just hope my friends realise I have taken the time to look and their image must have been arresting enough for me to take the time to do this. I love the supportive atmosphere this generates and have only just got up enough courage to put questions forward which I know show my ignorance of the technicalities of the subject, so carry on with ` nice set` I am not the least bit troubled by it. x viv

I have finally settled into this philosophy as far as PB comments are concerned.

1. You get what you give - most of the time.
2. People give what they have - most of the time.
3. What we have to give goes up and down in quality and quantity.
4. What we need to get goes up and down in quality and quantity.
5. Never demand what you need.
6. Never refuse what you are given.
7. Post your pictures.
8. Be thankful for what you get.
AMEN

i give criticisms only when people ask for and i try to be genuine...but i must constat that even in this case, it is not well accepted!
so i will give only awesome comments now...Arf!

Gee Wizz - Every Party Always has a Pooper! I also like that people check me out as well Meow to all the "cadiness" I thought this was a place for friends to connect - NOT Dissect

And on that Note - Please remember to Participate in the Scavenger Hunt this Weekend - Cheers!

LOVE what miahurricane said....ditto!

I love PB as it is.
I surf by friends postings to enjoy what they're sharing. & I post once in a while just to let them know that I'm still around. I comment when I feel like commenting and if the photos relate to me. I don't feel pressured to give or return nice words, and, I don't expect much too. I don't want to spoil anybody's mood with comments too technical for them or me to understand.
PB is just simple plain sharing and I love to keep it that way. My 2 cents worth...

I gave up working out what PB is or isn't a while ago. I do know that some people use this site as a sounding board for their "serious" work, just as others do to post family snaps. The only commonality, in my opinion, is the desire to share. If people genuinely request positive criticism (and not just "tell me how good this is"), this site can be a good place for them, just as it is for all the other kinds of photographer, amateur, pro and anything in between.

Given the broad and general appeal and nature of this site, it's easier to write a list of things this place should not be:

* I hate it when people post racist comments
* I hate it when people post comments on my blog criticising my beliefs, especially when they are disguised as appeals for tolerance
* I hate it when people prefer to criticize my friends, my work or even my models instead of facing me personally.

These are the reasons why I no longer post images in this account and do so only rarely in another.

Other things that tick me off:

* A lazy use of language ("awesome" is my pet hate)
* The idea that it is better to say something inane than nothing at all
* I used to find the spam irritating (insufficient technical resources by the administrators/owners of this site), but I do admire the effort someone always makes here to bump it off the FP.

Definition of "inane" - silly, stupid, of no significance.
My comments stand accused. (referencing the use of the word "inane" in revenant's comment above)

Given the choice i would rather receive comments based in laziness rather than ones based in judgemental or arrogant attitude.

While comments may be considered as "inane" by some that does make them so.

Why should my inanity "tick off" anyone? Go figure......

@frommydslr - at the risk of sounding silly or stupid, you have an awesome attitude. And awesome posts (sometime - not everyday - but on most days....) ;-)))